Early Christmas Gift!!

[satinfun]

Annabelle, can you please circulate this nice early Christmas gift among your friends and models? Also on social media if possible.


I am not intending to make fun of someone or debate his faith. But I found the following story very interesting, especially that the person admitted his defeat and surrendered.

A devout Muslim apologist who planned to be a Muslim scholar so he can defeat Christians in debates. Mainly in the UK since it was his ex-colonial administrator and acted superiority over his own predecessors. He wanted to be the "hero" who will take revenge. He prepared around 20 years and always thought that he is different and invincible before moving to the UK.

Christians in the UK defeated him thoroughly and decisively in debates. His complete surrender and admission of the defeat made his case one of the best ex-Muslim cases! It was very humiliating but a true fact that he could not escape from, especially with the use of new tools like social media and online forums, etc. Of course you cannot prevent Christians from celebrating the news especially if it happened just before Christmas!!

The story is well documented here:


A full testimony was published on ex-muslim UK here:

https://www.exmuslim.co.uk/Jalal.html

and on social media here:

https://twitter.com/xmuslimuk/status...924657671?s=20

CEMB published a detailed statement here:

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/members-list/entry/2104/

[peter92305]

To save us the turmoil of having to read all this stuff, can you summarise in a few sentences for us, exactly what this is all about and what conclusions you think we should arrive at. Why should we care about the views of some crazed individual we don't even know? Once I am clearer in my own mind, I will offer you my own views on the subject.

I did try reading it but sadly fell asleep midway through the trauma.

[satinfun]

I apologise for the lengthy information.

In short. In the same way Muslim scholars present newly Muslim converts on stage as a proof of their apologetic approach, Secularists and Ex-Muslim societies presented this case as a strong counter example: "A Well-Defeated Muslim Apologist".

Anyone can go to Islamic book stores and buy the famous videotape entitled “The Great Debate between Ahmed Deedat and the well known American Evangelical Jimmy Swaggart”. Muslims usually show this tape to their Christian friends as proof of Islam’s superiority. Although he is not a famous scholar, Jalal's the case is at least a counter example that Christians can enjoy and discuss with their Muslim friends as a proof of the superiority of Christianity.

As you said, may be we should not care, since he eventually got what he deserved ... there is nothing more humiliating!

[peter92305]

The truth is we've got a bit of a problem at present in that we are trying to persuade the rest of the world that our brand of capitalist democratic government is the model all countries outside the West should be adopting. The problem is we have been making a bit of a balls up of it in recent years and not surprisingly, our adversaries are using this as ammunition for trashing our systems of government.

I am both a devout capitalist and a parliamentary democrat but that means that the capitalists who run the big conglomerates need to pay less attention to feathering their own nests and a bit more attention to spreading the rewards of their enterprise more widely to their staff. Our government have been prevaricating with a record number of U-Turns under pressure from our free press and the largely peaceful demonstrations of the people in the street. You might think that this is a good thing when politicians change their minds at the drop of a hat, but it would look far better if they got these important decisions right the first time without having to constantly backtrack.

The problem with trying to defeat terrorism is a bit like clearing weeds from the garden, ~~ no sooner do you dig them up and they are back again with a vengeance. The Jihadists are also aware that there is no appetite in the West for fighting other countries' battles. Imagine the uproar there would be if our Government sent soldiers to Northern Nigeria to help the Nigerian Government to overcome Boco Haram. There would be insurrections and large scale rioting on the streets of cities and towns throughout the Country.

In about 8 billion years from now, the entire Milky Way Galaxy will be swallowed up by our larger sister galaxy ANDROMEDA at which time all our problems will be irrelevant. ( It's always nice to finish on a lighter note! )

[satinfun]

Originally Posted by peter92305

The truth is we've got a bit of a problem at present in that we are trying to persuade the rest of the world that our brand of capitalist democratic government is the model all countries outside the West should be adopting. The problem is we have been making a bit of a balls up of it in recent years and not surprisingly, our adversaries are using this as ammunition for trashing our systems of government.

I am both a devout capitalist and a parliamentary democrat but that means that the capitalists who run the big conglomerates need to pay less attention to feathering their own nests and a bit more attention to spreading the rewards of their enterprise more widely to their staff. Our government have been prevaricating with a record number of U-Turns under pressure from our free press and the largely peaceful demonstrations of the people in the street. You might think that this is a good thing when politicians change their minds at the drop of a hat, but it would look far better if they got these important decisions right the first time without having to constantly backtrack.

The problem with trying to defeat terrorism is a bit like clearing weeds from the garden, ~~ no sooner do you dig them up and they are back again with a vengeance. The Jihadists are also aware that there is no appetite in the West for fighting other countries' battles. Imagine the uproar there would be if our Government sent soldiers to Northern Nigeria to help the Nigerian Government to overcome Boco Haram. There would be insurrections and large scale rioting on the streets of cities and towns throughout the Country.

In about 8 billion years from now, the entire Milky Way Galaxy will be swallowed up by our larger sister galaxy ANDROMEDA at which time all our problems will be irrelevant. ( It's always nice to finish on a lighter note! )

The West had won the clash of civilizations, they were superior to every Muslim country in every metric (economic, social, happiness, health). The West won and has an unassailable lead. They smashed the Iraqi Army and Taliban in weeks. The Gulf states are pretty well-off now but they're an anomaly that's only because of oil. Oil's going to be obsolete in our lifetime so we'll see how well they do!

I have a theory that a lot of these hardcore Islamists are just bitter losers who are trying to prove that Islamic civilisation is superior to the western one. If you actually watch Islamists all their talking points are abstract and theoretical. They almost never bring hard data. And there is good reason for this, because all the available evidence points to the fact that secular, liberal, democratic, Capatalist values are simply superior to Islamic values. They produce better outcomes in almost every country from Britain all the way to Japan.

And there is no shame in admitting that, people have been incorporating different peoples discoveries since the beginning of time. There is a reason why the world uses Arabic numerals, its because Arabic numerals are better than Roman numerals.

There is no shame in admitting that someone else has a better discovery/model than you. Simply swallow your pride and accept it rather than trying to stubbornly revive your old primitive, antiquated ideas.